Camaro V6 or FiST

"BadMotorScooter" (badmotorscooter) 07/12/2018 at 09:05 • Filed to: None

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Apples and oranges, I know... but a local Chevy dealer has a leftover 17 Camaro RS V6 MANUAL that can be just about stolen right now. Something around $23k new. Everything I’ve heard about the Camaro V6 says it is quite good, with 335hp and a good sound. Is that an upgrade from my current stock FiST as a fun commuter third car?

EDIT: So I drove the Camaro, which is the actual car pictured. Much better chassis than I expected. Worse visibility than I expected. The 3.6 V6 is really good, lots of power and very smooth and eager to rev, and it sounds really good too. Overall was impressed and liked it more than I thought I would.

Comparing it to the FiST, the Camaro is bigger, bulkier, faster and feels like more of a GT sports car. The FiST is more nimble, smaller, darty, nervous and twitchy.

I’m trying to determine which would be more fun. I think the Camaro would be more fun except in a dense city.

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Wacko > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 15:41

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Go with the bowtie

PartyPooper2012 > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 15:42

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as much as I hate chevy, I hate ford even more. Plus all those head gasket issues on fords... pass. 

Cash Rewards > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 15:42

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Go drive it! Let us know

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 15:45

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If you are OK with the visibility issues and the lack of rear seat space, Camaro any day. GM’s 3.6 V6 is an excellent engine, plus it’s Manual

HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 15:45

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Whoever said the V6 Camaro sounds good is a liar. I reviewed one not long ago and during the test I revved the fuck out of it and it was weak. The 6 in my mom’s Odyssey sounds more menacing. Im to lazy to post a link to my review and am about to have my phone taken away so do with that as you will.

nerd_racing > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 15:45

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I’d go with the Fist because of functionality and fun. 

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 15:46

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The V6 will hold value a lot better despite being the “wrong” engine. But the running costs for fuel, insurance, and tires might be higher? If that matters to you, it’s worth keeping in mind. Oh, and the camaro is 500lbs heavier or something like that. All depends on what you need to do.

TheRealBicycleBuck > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 15:48

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I haven’t driven the Camaro, but 300+ hp is a hell of a lot of power. Just remember that it won’t turn like your FiST. It also won’t carry loads like your FiST. Oh yeah, it won’t carry people like your FiST either.

OPPOsaurus WRX > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 15:50

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i’d take RWD over FWD despite it being a Camaro. now if it were an Focus RS.... oooo yeaa that FoRS

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 15:50

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The only reason to get the FiST in this situation is if you need 4 doors. So if you don’t, get the Camaro. I drove a rental spec v6 and it was a lot of fun!

AfromanGTO > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 15:54

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Buy a used LS2 GTO instead. Enjoy your Aussie highway terror.

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 16:07

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Camaro over Fist for sure!

...unless you need a back seat.

BadMotorScooter > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/09/2018 at 16:07

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Yeah, FiST is like 2700 lbs. Camaro is about +500 at 3200 or so. Camaro does have a great chassis though, and RWD makes a big difference in handling. About 135hp difference too. Neither will win any races, just looking for a fun commuter. I have the FiST now, so would trade for the Camaro.

BadMotorScooter > TheRealBicycleBuck 07/09/2018 at 16:10

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I haven’t driven the Camaro yet either. I will soon though. RWD makes a big difference in handling. I love my FiST but it is a FWD econo hatch at heart. Lightweight though and grin inducing, but I wonder if the Camaro might be more fun overall. I’m looking for a fun commuter car - keyword fun. Not trying to win any races or impress anyone. 

BadMotorScooter > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 07/09/2018 at 16:12

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I’m gonna drive it and see how it does. The FiST has a tiny backseat too, although it does have 4 doors. Not sure if the practicality of the FiST offsets the RWD/more power of the Camaro. 

BadMotorScooter > nerd_racing 07/09/2018 at 16:13

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Fun is the key. Not sure which would be more fun in everyday driving. Not looking to win any races or impress anyone. 

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 16:18

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Everything you hear about the awful visibility is true but other than that it sounds like you should at least test drive it.

gawdzillla > nerd_racing 07/09/2018 at 16:22

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I am sure the camaro is also fun with 3 pedals

gawdzillla > OPPOsaurus WRX 07/09/2018 at 16:22

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the FoRS copied the subaru head gasket design

punkgoose17 > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 16:28

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That is an exciting deal on the Camaro, give it a test try.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > PartyPooper2012 07/09/2018 at 17:10

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Oh yes, the head gaskets on a few hundred cars due to a supplier. Let’s keep the myth rolling. 

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 17:13

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I was going to get a Camaro before I got my FiST, personally I couldn’t live with it if it wasn’t a V8. At that point I would just get a Mustang. Yeah, it was fun to drive, but it didn’t feel as alive or as nimble. The visibility is horrid. On top of that, you will absolutely hate yourself 6 months from now and the SS is now the same price as the V6 because the new model will be rolling out. Ugly or not, the pre-facelifts will be a bargain. 

Captain of the Enterprise > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 17:46

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I haven’t driven either but I’d go Camaro

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 19:25

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I would SERIOUSLY consider the Camaro, and I am NOT a fan of GM.

I get why it is the “wrong” engine... who buys a Camaro without a V8, right?

But I also get why it is the RIGHT engine.

But it is a slick, smooth DOHC V6, not an under-powered dog like previous GM, Ford, and Chrysler V6 base coupes had.

Alpha-Platform Camaros are modern, and weigh less than the previous Zeta Camaro. GM also treats the V6 as a sporty option, not just a rental car spec, like Mustang used to, before dropping it. Challenger is bigger and heavier, and a Hemi is a good sub-400hp real-world option that isn’t as much overkill as a 400+ horsepower, lighter-weight Mustang GT or Camaro SS, which are good, but go way beyond most street able limits.

A DOHC V6 6-speed manual Camaro with RS and sport package options is a really good package, and possibly a bit less frenetic than a Turbo I4 Camaro or Mustang that are either on boost or not. Lag isn’t what it used to be, but it is still a 4-cylinder in a 1.75 ton car.

The only thing... I would be seriously tempted to consider a Camaro Convertible.

Maybe not quite as dramatic looking as the coupe, but there is an excuse for the lack of visibility with the top up, and a way to resolve it, by putting the top down.

A FWD hot hatch is a different animal... with a different pro and con list, and it isn’t going to feel the same, in terms of driving dynamics, or the intangibles of owning and driving a more pleasure-oriented car.

BadMotorScooter > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 07/09/2018 at 19:30

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Well, a big part of why I’m considering the Camaro is the price. I t will be in the $23k range . That seems like a lot of car for the money, IF it is fun to drive. I don’t think a V8 SS will be anywhere near that price as a leftover new model. 

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 19:40

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I’ve seen them drop below 30k without the threat of a new model, and you can pick up a GT for like 27k. 

BadMotorScooter > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 07/09/2018 at 19:47

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Yeah I’m OK with the V6 Camaro (and I can’t believe I’m saying that with memories of the old V6s !). Keep in mind that this specific Camaro is a leftover 17 with a crazy discount to get it sold - it might not be exactly as I’d order it, but it is an RS V6 with a manual trans. Pretty weird spec - which is prob why it hasn’t sold.

I have the FiST now and would trade it. I like the FiST a lot, and may end up keeping it. The biggest knock on the FiST is the FWD. It doesn’t feel like a sports car. It feels like a really good handling and quick FWD hatch - lots of fun.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > BadMotorScooter 07/09/2018 at 22:48

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That is the way I would Spec it, if i were ordering... in blue with the saddle interior. especially with the 2LT, with RS, Tech, and Sport packages. I would probably choose Arctic blue for subtle, Hyper blue or Garnet Red for bold. Krypton Green and Yellow are a bit TOO bold.

Arctic Blue, dark blue top, grey interior, unfortunately Kalahari isn’t available on that color com bo.

If I were to have a car like that, I would also be tempted to swap in the smoke tinted tail lights from the Redline edition, and maybe wrap the windshield frame in black or midnight blue gloss wrap, to hide the windshield frame, and make the body look lower and longer.

PartyPooper2012 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 07/10/2018 at 06:04

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“MYTH”

nerd_racing > BadMotorScooter 07/10/2018 at 07:14

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Slow car fast is always more fun that fast car slow.  Less tickets too. 

nerd_racing > gawdzillla 07/10/2018 at 07:14

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But it’s awfully heavy, hard to see out of, and just enough power to put it past the slow car fast edge. 

J45ON > BadMotorScooter 07/10/2018 at 07:50

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Think of the FiST as ‘Hot Hatch Light’. It’s a an excellent and fun car. I would say the V6 Camaro is ‘Muscle Car Light’. Similar recipe, same great outcome.

Do a buy.

TheRealBicycleBuck > BadMotorScooter 07/10/2018 at 09:07

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My car is a WRX wagon. My long-term rental is a Challenger. Here’s a quick side-by-side comparison:

Accleration: WRX - It’s not by much, but the WRX is significantly lighter, eliminating the 50 hp power advantage the Challenger has over the WRX.

Handling: WRX - As one author said, you can’t beat physics. Being lighter, the WRX has a significant advantage in the corners.

Noise: Challenger - My WRX is LOUD and I’m not talking about the exhaust. At freeway speeds, it’s hard to have a conversation and it’s impossible to talk on the phone without yelling. Dodge really means it when they call the Challenger a “gentleman’s” muscle car. It’s very, very quiet inside, even at ludicrous speeds.

Visibility: WRX - The WRX is like being in a fishbowl. The blind spots are tiny compared to the Challenger. Parking is a breeze. The Challenger is hampered by high waistlines, a really long hood, a tiny back window, and gigantic C-pillars. Even with a backup camera, I find the Challenger a lot more difficult to park.

Transmission: WRX - Who can argue about rowing your own gears? To be fair, you can get a manual transmission in the Challenger, but I think you have to move up to the Scat Pack to get it. The 8-speed mated to the V-6 has a distinct hesitation while it downshifts if you romp the gas to pass someone. It’s programmed to move up through the gears as quickly as possible for fuel savings. It’s better when in sport mode, but it’s not the same as a manual.

Access: WRX - Let’s face it, four doors is better than two and a hatch is better than a trunk. The Challenger is challenging to get in and out of, especially the back seat. There’s room for kids back there, but the back seat of the WRX is roomier. The Challenger does have a gigantic trunk, but getting stuff in and out of it is difficult.

Overall: Tie - Yeah, I know, that’s a cop-out. But the one you want is really a matter of how you’re going to use it. If you have a couple of kids, don’t mind the noise, need the space, like to zip through traffic, and like to autocross or go to t he track a few times a year, then the WRX is your car. If you don’t need as much space, don’t have kids to haul around, like a fast car that you don’t plan to take to the track, and want something quiet, the Challenger is your car. I’m sure the Mustang and Camaro are similar to the Challenger.

BadMotorScooter > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 07/12/2018 at 08:57

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So I drove the Camaro, which is the actual car pictured. Much better chassis than I expected. Worse visibility than I expected. The 3.6 V6 is really good, lots of power and very smooth and eager to rev, and it sounds really good too . Overall was impressed and liked it more than I thought I would.

Comparing it to the FiST, the Camaro is bigger, bulkier, faster and feels like more of a GT sports car. The FiST is more nimble, smaller, darty, nervous and twitchy.

I’m trying to determine which would be more fun. I think the Camaro would be more fun except in a dense city.

pip bip - choose Corrour > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 09:17

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i thought Camaro V6 was auto only?

itschrome > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 09:17

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Option 3:

Split the difference! Buy a Used ATS coupe!

Same chassis as Camaro. Smaller, lighter can either be 2.0t 4 banger or the same 3.6 V6. Also better visibility than Camaro. 

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 09:20

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If they can give you a good deal on your trade in I'd say pull the trigger

Chuckles > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 09:21

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So I generally go for small, light cars (I currently have a 94 Miata and a 2012 Fiat 500). I think that the FiST would be the much better car for spirited driving on a back road. But how often will you be using this car for that purpose? The Camaro might be the better one for the highway.

How often do you need to use the backseat for people? If it’s more often than “practically never” you may want to go for the car with 4 doors.

I don’t think that there is a wrong choice here. It just depends on  which one you like better.

BadMotorScooter > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/12/2018 at 09:22

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Nope, 6 manual is available with all the engine options. Although it is unusual to find it on the V6. Seems to be more common on the base turbo 4 and the V8s.

pip bip - choose Corrour > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 09:23

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maybe i’m confused with Mustang?

Wacko > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 09:25

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Camaro sits in your garage/driveway, Fist sits in dealer garage for head gasket work.

BadMotorScooter > Chuckles 07/12/2018 at 09:33

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I think that’s my dilemma. I like small, light and nimble too. I really like the FiST, but it is a tuned (very well) FWD econohatch. The FiST is more raw and purposeful, but less of a real sports car due to the FWD chassis . It’s hard for me to say a V6 Camaro is a good sports car, but the new one really is. As a fun commuter, not my only car, I think the Camaro might win. The Camaro rides MUCH better than the FiST but the FiST has a much more useful hatch/trunk.

Price is a factor here too. I wouldn’t consider the V6 Camaro near the $32k MSRP but this thing is around $23k, wh ich makes it really attractive.

BadMotorScooter > Wacko 07/12/2018 at 09:38

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The head gasket issue is only on the Focus RS thankfully. Although 14-15 Fiesta STs had a head issue that can result in overheating. Mine is late e nough that I don’t believe it has that issue. For the most part the FiST is holding up well. It’s the common interior parts that seem to be questionable, but then again a Camaro isn’t known as ultra-quality interior materials either. 

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 09:50

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The middle ground between those...

Miata RF (2019 with upped horsepower, especially, think FiST in an actual sports car format, minus most of the practicality, 2018 or older units  will probably be on clearance when the upped-power 2019s come in.)

Fiat 124 Spyder Abarth. (droptop, like non-RF Miata, slightly different exterior looks, turbocharged rather than atmospheric I4 in the Miata... a bit more torque rush.)

Subaru BRZ/Toyota 86. (ever so slightly more practicality and peak horsepower than Miata... fixed roof like the camaro, rear seats in a pinch.)

Nissan 370Z (old, so probably can get an amazing deal, if you can get past the looks, but similar V6 to the Camaro, rather than a 4-cylinder in the Subaru, Toyota, Mazda, and Ford. A bit lighter, 2-seat chassis, with smaller exterior dimensions than Camaro, and a lift-back hatch.

I really wish the Z were much better looking.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/12/2018 at 10:04

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The V6 mustang was always available with a manual up until the end of the V6 mustang itself.

SmugAardvark > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 10:07

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If it was a daily driver, I’d go with the Fiesta. I’ve only driven a new Camaro twice, and both times I felt like I was going to break my neck trying to get a glimpse of my blind spots. The Camaro is a good car for the money, no doubt about that. But if I had to live with only one, I’d take the FiST.

It’s probably worth stating that I live in a fairly urban setting.  S o there’s a lot to be said for a car that is easier to live with when it comes to street parking, which is the case for my daily.

BadMotorScooter > SmugAardvark 07/12/2018 at 10:22

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Yeah, that makes sense. The FiST is good in city due to size and nimbleness. The downside is the ride - I drove the FiST in  Chicag o a few times and those bad roads are not fun when you crash over potholes and patches. Camaro rides amazingly well (think Cadillac ATS), but you can’t see anything to the sides and is bigger/harder to park. 

Ssfancyfresh > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 10:38

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Are you single, without kids? Camaro

Are you single, with kid(s), and work nights as a dancer? Camaro

Do you fancy a mate and have no kids? Camaro

Do you have a mate but don’t have kids? Camaro

Do you have a mate, kids, and generally hate your life? Crossover

Pretty simple, really

Jayhawk Jake > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 07/12/2018 at 10:51

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All of these are terrible alternatives.

Miata is smaller and less practical with less power.

Fiat is literally just a Miata with a worse engine than the Fiesta.

The BRZ is...well see the Miata. Less power, less practical.

The Z? It’s an old, heavy, overpriced car that’s worse than the Camaro in every conceivable way. 

Jayhawk Jake > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 10:53

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The real answer is lightly used Ecoboost Mustang. It’s a V6 Camaro you can see out of, with a more us able trunk and an engine that responds well to tuning.

Otherwise, Camaro all day. I had a Chevy Sonic RS, it was fun. I’ve had two Mustangs now, they’re just so much better. 

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 11:10

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A V6 Camaro is one of my dream cars so I think you can guess where my vote is

boxrocket > BadMotorScooter 07/12/2018 at 12:58

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FiST. Universally lauded for it s smiles-per-gallon.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Jayhawk Jake 07/12/2018 at 16:25

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I didn’t evaluate them, I just said that they are in the middle-ground between the smaller size and nimble chassis of the FiST, and the bigger, heavier, Grand Touring-oriented, but less practical Camaro.

Keep in mind... practical is relative. This is a Ford Fiesta SUBCOMPACT that we are talking about here... yes, it may have more cargo room than a Miata, but it isn’t exactly a minivan, either, and the rear seats aren’t going to exactly be much more spacious than a BRZ or a significantly wider and longer Camaro.

Miata and Fiat 124 are smaller and less practical, but are true RWD sports cars, and weigh even LESS than FiST, and are even more nimble.

I had a NB miata, and it was less practical enough to not get used as often, and I don’t even fit in a new one... but they are GREAT fun, if you have a different, practical vehicle.

BRZ/GT86, again, less practical than FiST, but less bulky than Camaro, but properly rear-driven, not an under-steering front-drive chassis.

I wish these two had WRX or Ascent’s turbocharged engines... they would be much more serious contenders.

370Z... Old, yes... but that means DEAL. This Camaro is a deal because it is an un-sold hold-over, the 370Z could possibly be even more discounted.

Heavy... 3200lbs roughly. Yes, heavier than Fiesta ST, but probably at least 100lbs lighter than Camaro, possibly more depending on options.

Impractical... maybe. The rear hatch is easier to load things in than all but the Fiesta’s hatch. and probably at least as big as most of the coupe’s trunk volumes.

The chassis may be old, but that doesn’t mean it was done badly when it was new... it is still multi-link independent suspension front and rear, manual gearbox, with a DOHC VVT/VVL V6.

The real obstacle to the 370Z is the styling inside and out... but that is subjective... but many economy cars, and entry-level sports cars still use a lot of hard-touch plastics, and are not exactly luxury-cars on the amenities front... much like 370Z, which again... may be available with substantial discounts due to lack of market interest.

However... to really go for a deal... I myself would look in the used market for a 996 Porsche or even further down the price scale to a 350Z that isn’t so controversially styled, and in the LOW 5-figures to high-4-figures range on the used market, but may be harder to find examples in pristine shape, compared to new-hold-over cars that haven’t had previous owners.

Jayhawk Jake > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 07/12/2018 at 20:28

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Miata’s are certainly reasonably practical for what they are, but anything with 4 doors and a hatch will be more ‘practical’ by any measure than a very small 2 seat sports car.

I like the BRZ and the Miata, but based on my experiences I’d personally rather have the larger and more powerful Camaro (or comparable Mustang).

The 370Z MSRP is still quite high, but I’ll admit I have no idea what they actually sell for these days. 

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > BadMotorScooter 07/15/2018 at 01:26

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I worked at a Chevrolet dealership when the 6th gen Camaros came out. The first one we got was a V6, manual, red coupe with the dual-mode exhaust and I believe the RS pack. After driving a couple SSes... I honestly liked the V6 a LOT. The V8 is more fun in a straight line but compared to most cars the V6 is still a riot and the chassis dynamics are spot on. The sport exhaust sounds AMAZING. That DOHC V6 sounds downright exotic sometimes. I honestly didn’t have an issue with visibility. Situational awareness gets you far. Adjust your mirrors properly and it’s really not a problem.

I’ve driven some FiSTs as well. Interior is a disappointment, if you’re a larger person the Camaro is gonna be roomier for you. Back seats in both are “eh” but the Fiesta has rear doors to access its. The camaro’s rear seats are mostly a convenient place to put your groceries.

Put this way: The Fiesta is a practical daily that isn’t boring. The Camaro is a fun sports car that isn’t totally impractical. Different sets of compromises.

BadMotorScooter > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 07/15/2018 at 10:28

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That’s a good way to describe the FiST vs Camaro. RWD counts for a lot in handli ng and driving fun.

The V6 is really good, and it has a more usable amount of power than the V8 . Like the FiST, it’s a car that you can use the power and push the car. I’ve had several really high HP cars and know they are their own kind of fun, but this lower HP V6 is also a lot of fun. I do like the V8 thunder though.

Doctor of internal combustion > BadMotorScooter 07/16/2018 at 08:21

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i daily a camaro SS and had a v6 RS as a rental for a week. I rather enjoyed the V6. The power was surprising and the ride was nice. Blind spots are no problem as long as you don’t park somewhere where you’ll need to see something at your 5 o’clock. The backup camera has a very wide view for backing out of parking spaces. I have yet to kill any pedestrians.

The big question you need to answer is: Will your car ever need to transport anything besides yourself and one person? Because that’s it for the camaro. The back seat and trunk are useless.